GWSIG Monthly Meeting Minutes/Meeting37
International Game Developers Association
Meeting 37 Minutes part 1 || Meeting 37 Minutes part 2
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 Meeting
Guests
- The English Scribe (Andrew Walsh)
- Rob
- wendy
- Tracy Seamster
- Corvus
- Lauren1
- Bigrebo
- anthony c
- Joe C.
- JohnEvans
- Sande
- Kim
- Ammanas
- EdFear
- TimL
- Mykas0
- beth
- Molly
- Chris
The English Scribe: When we start we shall begin with Wendy filling us in on the website and then move on from there, so please gather your thoughts
Bigrebo: Got to spend about an hour with Deadspace a well
Chris: Oh man, I am so jealous!
Meebo Message: guest248398 is now known as TimL
The English Scribe: 2. Forum/Email links. 3. Script and sample library 4. Hiring Hall 2.0. : Writer facility.
The English Scribe: 5. Increasing SIG visibility - IGDA magazine, GDC 2009, +?
Kim: How's Deadspace? I just picked that up.
Chris: All three of those are games I want to play the second I have time (probably around 2012...)
Corvus: I only spent on hour with Deadspace before I decided to send it back
The English Scribe: 6. Quartley
Kim: Uh oh.
The English Scribe: 7. Book update - Book 2 success, Book 3 current status.
Corvus: Not bad, just not my cup of tea
Kim: Ah.
The English Scribe: 8. Any other business
The English Scribe: Will be the agenda
Bigrebo: Honestly, I find Deadspace the strongest of the three in terms of narrative. It is incredibly atmospheric (Bioshock quality audio)
The English Scribe: No Spoliers for those who haven't played it yet please
TimL: Heh .. so i guess Meebo doesnt have a whiteboard to post the agenda on ... :/
Bigrebo: Yea, I gotcha. I won't let cats out of bags
guest1994237: yo
The English Scribe: Okay, I'm just going to post a location reminder then I'll call things to order so we can begin
Rob: It's on the wiki Agenda page...
TimL: faq -- you can right-click your guest# identity to change it to a nick name
guest1994237: steve jacobs here
The English Scribe: Hey steve
TimL: steve you can right click and make id "steve" or summat
Meebo Message: guest4088703 is now known as JohnEvans
TimL: has left the room
JohnEvans: Aha!
The English Scribe: So, greetings to all, thank you for coming along and apologies for the problems we have had over the last few meetings.
The English Scribe: Hopefully today will work out to be much smoother as an event
Meebo Message: guest6678034 is now known as TimL
TimL: meebo booted me back now though
The English Scribe: for those who've not been before, these events are open and comments are welcome throughout
The English Scribe: so please speak up
guest1994237: name change not working on mac
The English Scribe: We want to use this meeting to bring people up to speed with what's going on, make sure that we have the right people listed as covering the right initiatives
The English Scribe: and to take suggestions on how we move other elements forward.
Rob: Hrm. I'm having trouble with the scroll bar not auto-scrolling as new text is added. It was doing that originally. What did I screw up?
The English Scribe: Corvus, could you start by giving us an update on the website please
The English Scribe: Rob I'll come to you about the wiki after this
Rob: ok
Corvus: I don't have one. All updates go through Wendy
Corvus: If you're talking about the upcoming Drupal site
The English Scribe: okay, over to Rob and we'll get an update from Wendy once she's free
Rob: ha
Rob: "The state of the Wiki is strong."
The English Scribe: that was a swift move on
wendy: Ok, I'm here
wendy: catching up
The English Scribe: Just so people know...we want to make some changes to the website, but it makes sense to make them in line with the big changes IGDA are planning as a whole
Meebo Message: guest5755503 is now known as Ammanas
The English Scribe: Wendy can let us know where we are up to with those
The English Scribe: Anything you need for the Wiki Rob?
Rob: in general I've just been puttering around cleaning it up, and advocating that it should be used more like a workbench for things in progress rather than something used by the public (ie, duplicating what the GWSIG web site should be)
The English Scribe: Have we all we need contentwise?
The English Scribe: Does everyone here know what the Wiki is, where it is and what it does? Speak up if not
Molly: I don't.
The English Scribe: That makes sense Rob
Rob: well, if you want to put top mailing list and forum links on there -- which is agenda item 2 -- then I'm mainly just waiting for content to be thrown to me
The English Scribe: Rob could you give a quick overview of the wiki for Molly
The English Scribe: Grand, we will start throwing things at you soon
Rob: the GWSIG has a wiki http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Writers_SIG
The English Scribe: Might even give you some contnt too
Rob: among the more useful things it has is the list of currently active SIG initiatives that are in play
Rob: one of the reasons I became vocal about some things on the mailing list was from reading the wiki and going "hmm what's up with those now?"
wendy: hey Rob, I've suggested a few things on the mailing list for that wiki page of oft-repeated topics. but I'm not sure I made them very obvious. did you get them?
Chris: How do you define "active"?
wendy: I consider everything active unless it has been purposefully delayed
Molly: (Thanks, Rob!)
Rob: (to wendy) hmm, no, I don't remember seeing those
The English Scribe: Any further ? on wikiworld? or shall we go to wendy world for a wonderful website round up?
JohnEvans: Wicked!
Rob: I've been pretty diligent in general about reading all of the mailing list messages but I must have skimmed over those whenever that was
The English Scribe: That's our GWSIG tongue twister for the day
Chris: Weird
wendy: ok, Rob, I'll send them directly to you next time. I was having trouble remembering who was dealing with that at the time
Rob: I can search back through my email and see if I spot them
The English Scribe: Wendy's wikiworld wicked wonder website
Rob: or that. thanks
wendy:
The English Scribe: Waves at Wendy
wendy: here's the update on the new igda.org
Chris: Why Wave at Wendy When Winks Will Work?
wendy: i'm told that "any day now" they're gong to let some alpha testers in to kick the tires
wendy: the people building the new site have been given a long list of requirements
wendy: and they think they'll have it up and running in december or january
Chris: Who is representing GWSIG in alpha?
The English Scribe: wonderful wordsmithing!
wendy: it's all being built in Drupal
guest1994237: No one hold their breath on that date though
The English Scribe: Is that just outside Bombay?
Rob: that'd be good if it's up by then.
wendy: well, since Corvus has volunteered to maintain website stuff, I was going to have him kick the alpha tires
TimL: kick em hard corvus
The English Scribe: Up for a good kicking Corvus?
wendy: and yeah, don't hold your breath on that date. we were told we would be able to kick the tires three weeks ago
Corvus: Sure thing
Rob: I guess that means we'll be in some way given drupal admin access to change and update the GWSIG part of the site?
Corvus: I'll wear my special shoes with the knives in the toes
wendy: that's the idea, Rob. Yeah.
The English Scribe: So, things on the website will move forward, we will keep people posted and hope for postive news from IGDA central
Rob: were there specific things we wanted to change to the website after it migrates to drupal?
TimL: in other related news writerssig.org now redirects to our current igda.org site
The English Scribe: I think we should hold those conversations until we are closer to the date
wendy: well, the navigation needs work. there are a ton of resources on our site now that nobody can seem to find
wendy: and that's great, Tim! Thanks!
wendy: our URL shouldn't change with the upgrade
wendy: in theory at least
The English Scribe: We keep talking about the new website, but we will need to revisit everything once it's done
The English Scribe: let's move on (unless there is an objection) to 2. Forum/Email links.
The English Scribe: Rob?
The English Scribe: Quick report?
wendy: I think part of this topic was also something the "new" igda.org is supposed to fix too - more of a link between the message boards and the mailing list
Rob: I think I just gave it...
The English Scribe: Cool, we can move swiflty on to 3
Rob: ok
The English Scribe: Script Library
wendy: but in the meantime, we'll also be adding info to the wiki about frequently-discussed topics and valuable threads
The English Scribe: Thanks Wendy
wendy: script library
The English Scribe: I know we have had some movement on submissions of script samples, any update Rob?
Rob: well let's see
The English Scribe: anyone else with any materials that they would be willing to add?
Rob: I've brought it up a few times. the last time, I proposed a list of the 9 or 10 types of game writing there could potentially be examples of, only some of which are accounted for in the current set of samples
The English Scribe: script? game dev? bibles? etc
wendy: i have to confess that the script library is caught a little bit in the igda.org update saga. it currently has to be updated through web ftp - it's very clunky
Rob: some of the other mailing list discussion prompted someone to say they could even put an example game design doc on there for example
Rob: yeah, drupal should help with that, at least I think so
The English Scribe: That would be great
The English Scribe: the wider the resources (if clearly labelled and navigable) the better imho
Rob: I'm not sure what to do to make more people who can contribute other samples actually do so
guest1994237: I'd like to see us have a variety up there to be sure and to get what we need I'd like to see us put out a formal request
The English Scribe: could you add your name guest 1994237?
Meebo Message: guest5956051 is now known as Lauren
guest1994237: Push it out to the ED SIG first since they have the need and there's faculty who've leftindustry with rights to use their stuff for education
wendy: here's a thought to keep in mind. I'm getting more samples for the genre book (update to come later) and these can be put on the website as well
guest1994237: then maybe send it out to others
wendy: so there will be an infusion of samples here in a bit
guest1994237: that's steve and I can't get the !@#$%^&* to work
The English Scribe: you can right-click your guest# identity to change it to a nick name
Corvus: guest1994237==Steve and is having troubles with the interface on the Mac
Rob: ED? the game education sig?
guest1994237: doesn't work for my set up andy, tried
Corvus: I'm looking into it,but probably won't have an answer until next meeting
The English Scribe: ahhhh, he's on a Mac
The English Scribe: but they NEVER have problems...I've seen the adverts
Molly: I'm on a Mac and it works find for me.
Bigrebo: I am on a Mac
wendy: I'm on a mac too and not having that problem, but i'm using firefox...
guest1994237: ITs all that 3rd party software that has issues
Bigrebo: Hahah
The English Scribe: Ah...you need to upgrade to the big mac ;0
guest1994237: using firefox as well bt the right click is only brining up firefom menus
Chris: Isn't there always some snot-nosed kid showing up a well-paid PC user on those commercials? "Go Mac - who needs a real job?"
TimL: Adobe Connect is an option for the future, our version can save copies of the session and email to participants etc
The English Scribe: So back to the ed SIG
TimL: works with both PC and Mac of course
Meebo Message: guest383871 is now known as Joe C.
Rob: right clicking specifically on your username in the rightmost userlist? because clicking anywhere else brings up the standard right-click menu
guest1994237: TimL we used connect for a long time. There's a known issue with it truncating the chats so we don't get the whole thing. Otherwise we'd still be using it
The English Scribe: Let's also move to say we put out a formal request for material, with a list of the sort of samples we are looking for
The English Scribe: sound like a way forward?
guest1994237: yah
Rob: yes
The English Scribe: Great. Bangs gavel
guest1994237: We should likely hold the call till the new site is up
The English Scribe: 4. Hiring Hall 2.0. : Writer facility.
TimL: our version of connect does not truncate chats. We have the top of the line version and direct backup from Adobe
The English Scribe: I think we can gather material while we wait so it is ready for the new site
The English Scribe: there will be lots of other things to do once the new site arrives and this topic already has momentum
guest1994237: ok
The English Scribe: 4. Hiring Hall 2.0. : Writer facility. No sande
guest1994237: Will write a call
The English Scribe: Rob, we are overlapping points here, as we were talking about samples for applying for jobs and posting writers' samples for employers on the site too
Rob: right
wendy: and Rob, you're the one who sketched out the database-style writers for hire page, right?
guest1994237: Different though I think
The English Scribe: there was some confusion over this so I'd like to clear this up, that there are two sets of samples...one for general consumption for students, writers to look at
The English Scribe: and one which is aimed at employers as a way of advertising your wares
Rob: in a way. I just kept asking "what is this going to be?" because I was interested in getting my own samples up somewhere, hopefully in the same format as everyone else
wendy: and i thought we had talked about coming up with a "standard" writing sample
The English Scribe: There is no single set of guidelines for samples
Rob: there were a lot of digressions, like what file format to use, and the confusion over whether this was companies-browsing-for-writers or writers-browsing-for-companies, with most people thinking it was the former and I'm pretty sure Sande thinking it was the latter
wendy: so we could post similar material
The English Scribe: there was talk of creating one for the site
wendy: and i still like that idea
The English Scribe: but does that mean saying font etc, or layout
Ammanas: i'd create advertising one's wares samples, if I knew what should go in them
Bigrebo: Might we have a specific writing sample format or assignment for the samples each person puts up in the hiring hall?
The English Scribe: layout would be bad imho
JohnEvans: And we'd know what should go in them if someone would create them...
The English Scribe: I don't think that works for most employers
Rob: there actually is some concensus on samples, some of which has come out of the mailing list at random times, that I've been keeping track of
The English Scribe: there are so many different sorts of games genre and narrative genre that constricting people in that way may do more harm than good
guest1994237: THe education thing would be oganized by type style etc and be for ed purposes, I don't think that writers looking for work will necessarily want random students cruising their portfolios
The English Scribe: General point, when we get into posting things like this on our site, do we need legal disclaimers in case of idiot lawsuits?
Rob: you think standardizing layout is a bad idea?
wendy: idiot lawsuits?
The English Scribe: And how do we stop random people crusing the portfolios? Should we stop people doing that?
Rob: hmm
wendy: why would we want to stop people from doing thaat?
Bigrebo: I am not saying we should constrict people to just that, but perhaps everyone should be made to provide a sample in a specific format as in additon to other samples they may want to provide
Meebo Message: guest207762 is now known as Lauren1
wendy: the point of a portfolio is to have it seen
The English Scribe: Someone posting an idea, then claiming it was 'stolen' and trying to sue us as an enabler, that type of idiot lawsuit
Lauren: has left the room
The English Scribe: Yah, but that's the ? do some people want privacy on their samples, what would our policy be
Rob: if they want privacy why are they uploading a sample? the samples are there to be seen
wendy: well, we're not forcing anyone to post samples
The English Scribe: as Steve said, would people want students and journalists able to rummage through their samples
Ammanas: why post if you want privacy?
guest1994237: I'd assumed I would post my portfolio with an option of open or closed access and then send my code to employers
Rob: ah hm
TimL: two sets of samples - one private one for general public access
Kim: I agree with Steve. I would want to know who's looking at my samples.
wendy: why wouldn't we want students looking at our portfolios? how else are we going to nurture upcoming talent?
Molly: I agree with Wendy.
Kim: That's what the script library is for.
Bigrebo: As a very recent graduate, I second Wendy's point
Rob: this is another thing drupal probably will make possible
The English Scribe: I think that's the key - the script library is for that purpose
Ammanas: i assumed private access for employers needs to be handled on our own
The English Scribe: the employers samples have a different aim
Corvus: Yeah, why wouldn't you want your portfolio available? Isn't that what it's for?
guest1994237: If I were a prof, and I am, I'd want to point students to a set of samples by category on one site
TimL: as a prof i'd like that too
guest1994237: SO they'd likely be organized differently, then again I haven't paid much attention to the hiring hall side of the discussion
wendy: I guess I'm a strong proponent of the fact that stealing ideas isn't really an issue. it's the execution of an idea that's important. just look at how many people have written books or comic books about a young wizard with exceptional powers
The English Scribe: I think they should be separate
Kim: I second that. I send my students to screenplay sites to check out different samples, including different drafts.
guest1994237: I'm thinking mostly from an IP rights perspective
The English Scribe: I agree Wendy, but that doesn't stop the lunatics coming out with lawsuits, or plagarists stealing other people's portfolios and using them as their own
TimL: has left the room
wendy: the way things are set up now, there's no connection really between the Doc Library and the Hiring Hall
guest1994237: COmpanies might allow me, the writer, th right to use work samples on a limited basis to seek employment but not want the freely distributed
Bigrebo: Our site does provide some protection for those stolen from if it is indeed transparent
wendy: the only connection is the use of the word "samples" in our discussions
Meebo Message: guest6914118 is now known as TimL
wendy: which is why i'm grumpy about it
wendy: I don't consider items in the Doc Library to be samples
Rob: yeah, that's about the only problem
wendy: I don't consider anything from an existing game to be a sample.
guest1994237: I'm less worried about the lawsuit thing, if you post your work you take your chances that way, I'm more concerend about what righrt an individual might or might not hav
Rob: as writers we need an expanded vocab for talking about writing
The English Scribe: Yes, I think from now on we should use the term Library for one and samples as the other
TimL: note to self, to clear the text area when you change your mind about what you are writing, dont hit "esc" as that boots you from Meeb
JohnEvans: How about "examples"
Rob: we should have 27 different words for writing samples, like eskimos and snow
guest1994237: Ok, let me be clear then
wendy: maybe an example, but not a sample. In my mind, samples are things written for employers to show what you can do.
The English Scribe: or given to doctors for diagnosis
guest1994237: As a professor, I want my students to be able to see the docs and scripts from published games so they see what does and doesn't fly in industry and would wan an educational library of stuff to use in class
Rob: actually I think this philosophical difference between what the library and the portfolio samples are for and who they are to be browsed by and why is a good one to have made, and hopefully that will be clearer from now on, and when those pages get cleared up in the update
TimL: again, two sep things: sample scripts for public access and sample scripts for the hiring hall
Rob: hm, chat keeps telling me 'your last message was not delivered!'
TimL: it wasnt
wendy: :-)
TimL: :-)
The English Scribe: Nope from now on we don't use the term scipt samples for the library
guest1994237: As a writer looking for work I would want to post samples (not whole scripts or design docs) and might be constrained by my contract as to how I might use work samples from a commerical titles
Meebo Message: guest895259 is now known as beth
beth: Are we still on number twoooo?
TimL: just 'samples' and 'ex-samples'
beth: Ahhh! Weird.
wendy: beth! you live! yay!
The English Scribe: t reduce confusion the library of documents in one iniative and the employers samples is another
Kim: HI Beth!
guest1994237: SO if we used landguage of "Samples" for limited size excerpts for writers looking for work
The English Scribe: Yes
Rob: (to Andy) pound the gavel as an exclamation point on that
wendy: I'm going to bang the gavel on that statement, Andy. Good resolution. *bang*
TimL: !
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Continue reading Meeting 37 Minutes part 2
